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Don Campau EC Post #6

5/1/2018

28 Comments

 
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What do “underground” and “independent” mean now any way?

In the old days it was pretty easy to tell what was truly outside the mainstream or “underground”. I used to simply describe this type of music as being unavailable in the music stores. But now, most record stores don't even exist even though the press is quick to point out Record Store Day or the resurgence of vinyl.  Evidently, vinyl is what’s keeping many local shops going now. That’s fine. I’m a record lover and have been for over 50 years when I bought my first 45, “Twist And Shout” by The Beatles.

In the early days of my “No Pigeonholes” radio show (circa 1984-5) getting all these weird and wild tapes from all over was fun, exciting and distinctly underground. There wasn't much delusion about “making it” (whatever that means) from a one off (or maybe a few dozen) cassette with hand printed or badly xeroxed cover images. Some artists featured better graphics and sound such as Carl Howard’s audiofile Tapes label (and others) but even then the music set itself apart as bizarre and experimental forays into the unknown and commercially inaccessible.

I did receive the odd tape from artists who seemed to think their band or home taping project was their key to a better life or music career. I often referred them them as the “shrink wrapped” mentality because they would have their tapes professionally duplicated (like at Discmasters) and cellophane enclosed. And instead of a hand written letter with tons of crazy compilation invites or strange nonsensical art it would have the dreaded “one sheet”…a promo tool used to describe their music and with comparisons to somebody famous. “Head Shots”, glossy paper, glowing reviews from semi famous friends, that sort of thing.

I cannot tell you how many of these I get every single day now but fortunately most of them  are in email form so it is easy to wipe them off my computer. The amount of money spent by bands and musical artists on promotion is ridiculous now. Everyone is looking for an angle to “cut through the static” of too much information.
So, as I outlined in one of my earlier posts, things started to get gray and fuzzy around the turn of the 21st century. The trading scene had all but dried up and people were getting more serious, or so it seemed to me. Oh, a few people hung on to the trading ethic and I would still receive some odd material and little announcements of compilations, collaborations and so forth.

At the same time the Major Record Companies started complaining about illegal downloading and the possible death of their profits from the internet. Spotify, Pandora and iTunes did not exist in any great degree yet but they were coming. Who knew then that the real death was of ANY physical product?

So, about then, the word “indie” started to get used a lot. I mean, it was used before but now it was used as a term of endearment, a way to “pigeonhole” bands to make them more fashionable and trendy. Instead of it being a high flying flag of weirdness and individuality it was a decree of some short term fad. 

So, the terms “underground” and Independent” really lost all meaning, or became just more adjectives for promotion.

To be honest, I have used these words to describe my own show. And, also to be honest, I am now playing bands that might have been too slick or mainstream in the old days. But, I decided long ago that I would not simply be stuck in the past and try to remain open to the new trends and statements of younger musicians. Plus, I was no longer getting hundreds of tapes (or even CDs/files) from home tapers and outsiders. 

So, has my show simply become a mouthpiece for an industry I cannot stand? And, if so, why do I do it?

The reason to me is simple. Most of the artists I now play on “No Pigeonholes” are actually “indie” in the sense they are regional, or low profile groups/artists, who sometimes play live and record in small studios. There are plenty of “home tapers” but that has a whole different sense now too.
I do still refuse to play big time names or Major Label artists but heck, they hardly exist anyway. I look for the ever elusive “independent attitude”, whatever that is.
I must admit that I don’t even like all the groups I play now. But I am lucky because I have a wide taste in styles/genres and my goal is to be as inclusive and open as possible. I try to give everyone a shot although there is stuff I just cannot stomach and get rid of.

I am lucky because I have four separate radio shows. Three of them are called “No Pigeonholes” and on two of them I feature todays “indie” scene from rock, hip hop, singer-songwriter, instrumental, new age, experimental and more. One the fourth show called “No Pigeonholes EXP” I stick to challenging and experimental works from free jazz, dub techno, improv, noise, sound collage, drone, etc. One other DJ called it “sounds, not songs”. I think think that’s apt.

On one of the “No Pigeonholes” shows on Radio On in Berlin I have been featuring Cassette Culture material and even more recently actual radio tapes from back in the day with home tapes I had received then. (Link at my doncampau.com website )

So, many years ago I made the call. I would move forward the best I could. Sure, I prefer getting home tapes and original, strange expression. But, now a lot of what I am offered is from agents, managers, PR people, small labels and musicians who have an obvious intent to climb the ladder.

But, that’s OK. It is not my place to judge someone’s intent. No, I do not have to be a shill for the music industry although I do seem to be participating to some degree. I make it clear to people who submit that I won't be giving them “heavy rotation” or sending my playlists to CMJ or charting websites. I do try to still keep it personal and make sure each artist is aware that they got radio play and offer them links to the subsequent podcast (always free for downloading/streaming).

Why does any of this matter? Why do I bring it up at all?

Well, I think it needs to be spoken that I (and other former underground DJs) am aware of the evolution and change regarding my own program and the landscape that now exists. I need to look in the mirror and admit something. Like it or not, I am part of the problem, the sickness.

Basically, even though I still use them, the terms “underground” and “independent” are shallow at best. They still have meaning but have been warped, degraded and kidnapped until their former meaning is all but forgotten.

Don Campau

28 Comments
Frank
5/1/2018 04:45:38

Back to Mono!

No, what I really wanted to say... maybe, because of EC, you(and for instance Lord Litter), will get renewed attention for your radio-shows? And hopefully, in the near future, a new(or old) batch of independent artists will send their music to you!
(If I can convince my wife to let me send something with DHL in the future, I will. If it's not registered, a physical item will not reach the border of Batam and DHL is bloody expensive)

Reply
Lord Litter link
5/1/2018 09:30:12

As usual bloody (as the british would say) interesting/inspiring!

Again yes to all I've red here! ... still amazed about the endless power..already the 4th in-depth article/essay.

Some things I do different.

I now use the expression *counterculture*.

The expression *Underground* was corrupted for the first time when labels like CBS released LP compilations in the late 1960s with the *original* underground. The result was that challenging Hard_Rock_Jazz bands like Chicago ended up producing schmaltzy radio stuff.

*Indie* is a definition of bands/sounds that I basically avoid - I don't think that I have *indie* bands on my shows - *indie* almost contains the aspect of *making it* these days and to me *making it* is becomming part of the big game which which I avoided my whole life because I would have to live with too many disgusting details.

I like all the bands/musicians/labels I present and I give them *heavy rotation* - presenting full lengh releases, not *singles*. Physical releases I get I present for months and may return to real good ones a year later. By presenting bands/artists/labels this way a closer communication is often inevitable. Bands/musicians/lables who are only in it for promotion discard themselves by various structures. A real communication is clearly definable when compared with a stereotype "Thanks for playing our music." So I often say that all people I present are also great human beings one would like to meet in a bar for a drink. Each of them with their inividual idea about creating unique sound and music. To me all this comes very close to the *cassette culture* feeling.

Yes - I was quite desperately looking for a way to keep this feeling and not emotionally drown in the avalanche that seems to grow with every day of digitalism. I believe there is a way to live today but have it your own personal way by cleverly and carefully selecting.

All bands/musicians I present are carefully chosen and physical releases it must be, simply to shut off the endless stream of digitalism. Digital offerings I use to *check* music, like listening to radio in the old days: "Hey this sounds great I need to get the release!".

I have interesting examples where a listener said that he/she does not like this or that artist. Several shows later, many of them presenting this or that artist with different tracks, suddenly the listener changes his/her mind:"No - this artist is really good!".

The music I present is the music I would buy in a shop .. like in the old days - but those shops no longer exist, so the internet provides me with exactly the music I would buy in a .... I definitely believe that the internet can help you to find exactly what you are looking for, only our shop today is the entire world - AND - you have to use the internet not vice versa which too often is the normal way today.

The variety I'm interested in is unlimited. I always try to create a *landscape* of styles that may go from constructed pop song to open floating soundscape .. from harsh noise to soft whisper..all handselected from the today's *counterculture*

I got into music when I could go into a record shop here round the corner had a talk with the people there, started looking for new releases, listened to them and then decided which one would be for me to listen to for a long, long time - in fact some of those records I still listen to.

Today's endless stream of *digital* music takes the *particular* away from almost every artist....there is always one more who sounds kinda similar..

To offer a handselected *particular* selection is what I try with my radioshows and thus *saving* this attitude of the *special* for the future.

Find the shows here:
https://archive.org/details/@lord_litter

Reply
Don Campau link
5/1/2018 12:20:29

I always respect Litter's opinion on anything but probably more than anyone else he understands the dilemma that faces a DJ now, especially one that features non mainstream material.

He has thought out his solution to the flummoxing choices that face us and I applaud that.

One thing that I get concerned with is that the cost of postage for physical copies is enormous now. Man, I sent two Cds ( in my tiny plastic sleeves to The UK for...$14!
So, to me, one of the beauties of the digital age is the money saving aspects. This is a very real issue for independent ( or whatever we choose to call them ) artists. It would appear that only moneyed interests, or labels, can really afford to send out many copies, especially internationally. This is a very real world problem.

To me, this creates another type of exclusivity although one that may be inevitable. Litter is correct, choices have to be made and for him, this is a path that is effective for his purposes.
Mine is a bit different but works for me. I embrace the digital age fully but also aspire to the human interaction that was prevalent during the height of Cassette Culture. It doesn't always happen but I always feel that I need to stop complaining and help create the scene or the idea or the action. Let it start with me....Don Campau

Reply
Hal McGee
5/1/2018 13:00:42

You can mail a CDR in a flat sleeve (plastic or paper) by First Class Mail International Letter Rate instead of Package Rate. The difference in postage cost is amazing. I mail all of my CDRs this way and I have had no problems. You can use Letter Rate as long as your packet does not exceed one-quarter inch in thickness.

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C. Goff III link
5/1/2018 17:59:18

I've just started doing this for domestic CDs -- one at a time costs a dollar (99 cents). Gotta write "NON MACHINABLE" on the envelope to make sure the CD doesn't get crushed in a postal-cancelling chopper. BUT I've never tried this for international mail before. I assume the same "NON MACHINABLE" must be scrawled on the envelope. What about customs forms for this sort of letter -- do you fill those out for these too?

Hal McGee
5/1/2018 18:50:26

C3, I have never written Non-Machinable on the envelope nor have I attached a customs form. You want USPS to think it's a letter. So far, no CDRs that I've sent this way have arrived at their destinations broken or otherwise damaged. The difference is that it costs only $3.33 to mail a CDR overseas this way in a flat envelope, instead of $14 in a padded envelope.

Lord Litter link
5/2/2018 05:28:02

I thought about writing a lenghty reply but I guess that's not necessary - we're both working on the same thing just on different roads and there are a zillion ways to see things .. so let's keep on!

Reply
C. Goff III link
5/1/2018 18:17:39

Whatever you Don, and you My Lordship Litter, have done with your radio shows over the years, I've never gotten the sense that either of you have ever "shilled" for that oxymoronic "music industry." As for what "underground" stands for today, it's like shades of gray methinks. To people who possess a vast familiarity with music (like you two), something needs to be pretty under the radar to qualify as genuinely "underground." To the average Kanye West fans, I'm of the opinion that "underground" is a lot closer to the surface for them. Keep up the good work, both of you, please, and thanks for all you've done so far.

Reply
Hal McGee
5/1/2018 18:54:45

Bingo! "Underground" is totally relative. "Underground" really seems to me to carry a connotation of it being clandestine, carried out in dangerous conditions, covert, under the radar, such as the old zamizdat press. Get caught, go to the gulag, or worse.

Reply
Ditlev Buster link
5/2/2018 13:34:26

First of all, very interesting and thought provoking article, Don! Ever since one of my former bands was labeled an inside joke, by an angry youtube comment,i’ve been using the term “inside music” alot to describe underground or independent music. Like an inside-joke, inside-music might not be everybodys cup of tea so why ruin it by trying to explaining to people listening to outside-music. Also These people tend to be so judgemental at something unpolished, theyre not interesting to play for.That being said i think its great that radioshows like yours exists in the world. Wicthout them the world would be a much more boring place

William Davison link
5/1/2018 21:45:08

Another great, thought-provoking article, Don! And I'm really enjoying all the comments. Yes, "indie", "alternative", "underground" have all been co-opted. Mention "underground" to anyone under 30 these days and they will assume you're talking about dance music. Litter mentioned "counterculture". That's one I still use. The only problem with "counterculture" is that it is often seen as referring solely to the Hippie movement. Whatever people call, I'm pretty sure there is still some kind of "counterculture" out there. Up until about 7 or 8 years ago, I had no problem identifying it. Now, I'm kind of lost. And don't be mentioning my age, it's not that! OK, maybe it's partly that...but, things seem very fragmented now. Many little microscenes that last a matter of months and are replaced by something else equally fleeting. I think about this a lot. It bugs me. I'll keep looking, though. At least it keeps me on my toes! Vaporwave, anyone? (ha! already years out of date)

Reply
Evan Cantor
5/2/2018 15:12:51

Don's reflections are always interesting and linguistic evolution is always fascinating. Witness the changes over time--The Flintstones 'gay old time' has morphed. Is anything "not mainstream" considered 'underground' or 'counter culture'? Perhaps. The scene represented by most of the Electronic Cottage participants strikes me as both 'graduates' and 'students' of the 1980s Cassette Culture, but you dee-jay guys are probably in contact with a wider bunch of musicians and sound-explorers. The nice thing about the 1980s was the limitations of the form (zines, a few magazines). With the internet, the amount of material must be truly overwhelming. It sounds like both Lord Litter and Don have made their peace with it and developed strategies that work for them. Personally, I'm honored that they will listen to >my< work! Kudos and thanks to you both.

Reply
Lord Litter link
5/3/2018 06:37:44

... this is probably the perfect place to put an early memory... one of the tapes I received in the early days for radioplay I never forgot - caus it was so *different* - was a Evan Cantor EP cassette.

*Everybody* was screaming and shouting, harsh keybords .. Punk Rock..pure noise etc etc .. and suddenly.....the tape was one pure acoustic guitar plus a voice.

I can't remember who sent it and probably my mind plays it's usual trick on me and it all was slighty different..however I never forgot THIS tape!

Reply
Hal McGee
5/3/2018 07:01:11

yer Lordship, it seems to me that you are probably thinking of Walls Of Genius, Evan's band with Little Fyodor and Ed Fowler

Lord Litter link
5/3/2018 07:40:45

No - I'm pretty sure it was a Evan Cantor solo tape thus I was so astonished to find him in The Walls Of Genius later.

Made a quick research - it seems I found him on the International Sound Communications Compilation Vol. 15 from Man's Hate Productions England - 2xC 90
(where I also found Don Campau!)

Side D has the track: Evan Cantor: Nobody but You - c/o Sound of Pig Music

Thought the track was really different ...then I guess I wrote to Al Margolis and received the tape from him. I still have the tape ... BUT...no way to find it in my archives.

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Hal McGee
5/3/2018 07:54:03

Good to know! I have one post-WoG tape by Evan, “Just Sittin’ Around The House”, on the Sound Of Pig label. I need to give it another listen. Little Fyodor told me that there were three or four post-WoG Evan cassettes of a hometaperish nature.

Reply
Lord Litter link
5/3/2018 08:06:20

“Just Sittin’ Around The House” .. that may be it! .. sounds familiar!

Reply
Hal McGee
5/3/2018 08:28:45

I'm listening now. I'll report back.

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Hal McGee
5/3/2018 11:19:45

I listened to “Just Sittin’ Around The House” again this morning and I didn't hear any screaming & shouting, harsh keyboards, and noise. And that title is the only solo Evan tape on the Sound Of Pig label.

Lord Litter link
5/3/2018 12:04:29

.. sorry I meant *everybody* else in those days was screaming etc (which of course is a shameless exaggeration) and sudenly there was this pure mellow acoustic tape..

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Little Fyodor
5/3/2018 12:16:46

Interesting and ironic that a tape that, if I may speak for Evan, he hoped would appeal to a wider audience, came across as more "unique" within the context and milieu of what you were used to and that it was "released" in!

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Little Fyodor
5/3/2018 12:10:13

Yeah, I guess I never really made my peace with the changes being described, at least in the sense of being able to perpetuate my radio show in their midst. One of numerous reasons I finally gave up my radio show after 35 years or so was that I had become very dependent on people sending me stuff and that pretty much just mostly dried up. My show was almost becoming the C. Goff III and Ryan J. Boyd Hour because those two were just about the only folks consistently sending me experimental DIY material. (I'm exaggerating a little here for effect, so don't nobody take me too literally!) (But only a little!) And while those are two very fine artists indeed who did my show good, well, the rest of what I'd say is too obvious to bother explicating.... As already alluded to, hardly the only reason I threw in the towel, but definitely a factor!

What can you say? Things change and old farts complain! It's been going on at least since the dawn of civilization! I think Socrates complained about youth having no respect for tradition. John Philip Sousa coined the term "canned music" to deride musical recordings. Etc., etc. No doubt it sucks for people like me who got used to doing things a certain way. But something's lost and something's gained in living everyday, even if a 25 year old may rightly observe that some changes are forever not for better....

Don, I really don't see why you see yourself as part of some problem. Excessive nobility? Maybe if by part of the problem you mean participating in it, maybe. But then who isn't doing that in various parts of lives? And if you mean contributing to it, I really don't see how. You're just giving amplification to people's voices who wouldn't have that otherwise. I guess you have to decide for yourself who deserves such amplification, and whether or not I or anyone else would agree on any particular case, I hardly see how by doing that you're contributing to the aspects of the music industry we probably all here would agree that we hate. Anyway, I think we all here know you're doing a great service and I certainly applaud you for keeping up the good fight!! And Lord Litter too! And C. Goff has a radio show too!!! (I think still?) A fellow named Tony Coulter does an internet only "radio" show on the "Give the Drummer Some" internet stream on WFMU, and one of the alternating weekly shows he does (that is, he does a show every week but he alternates between themes, so the show I'm about to describe probably occurs monthly) is called "Tape Hiss" and is dedicated to... US!! Unfortunately, this particular show is one of the very few that does not get archived as the WFMU management believes, very ironically, that these DIY tapes present some sort of digital copyright issue not presented by other radio shows, but he does this show on Tuesdays (noon to 3pm eastern time) and I heartily encourage folks here to check it out! (As well as Don's and CIII's and Lord's shows, of course!!!) You can at least see Tony's playlists and listen to his other shows here: http://wfmu.org/playlists/TC It's actually kind of interesting that someone like him is taking such an interest in this scene as he was never an actual part of it himself, like the rest of us here. Or at least I don't think he ever was. Maybe I should interview him.......

Reply
Don Campau link
5/5/2018 00:44:03

Fyodor, Thanks for your comments. Maybe you told the story before but I would be interested in how your show developed because it was one of the first and longest of its kind. How did it come about? What kind of parameters did you insist on early on? And how did those guidelines change?
It was tremendously fun to be on your show live in Denver a couple years ago, a real highlight for me.
...Don

Reply
Little Fyodor
5/6/2018 15:22:58

Yeah, I should probably blog about that.... Thanks for the encouragement!

Hal McGee
5/6/2018 15:58:04

That would be an excellent blog topic, Fyo! It's a story that needs to be told!

Little Fyodor
5/6/2018 17:57:07

Y'know I sent copies of old playlists to someone recently. Was that to you, Hal?

Hal McGee
5/6/2018 18:19:06

Nope, not me

Little Fyodor
5/6/2018 19:22:12

Now I'm thinking it was Jerry Kranitz! Doesn't really matter as I think I still have my own copies! Anyway, I'll get to this, eventually.......!!!




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    Don Campau

    My name is Don Campau and I have been involved in underground and non mainstream music and radio since 1969. I continue to be an active home taper and Cassette Culture archivist with my own site, The Living Archive.

    Links to know me better:
    The Living Archive
    Lonely Whistle Music
    (my music catalog  and radio listings)

    I have no interest in the music business. I believe in giving my music away for free (although people can trade or buy if they want) and I handmake every single CD I send out. I am interested in human relationships and the community of independent and underground musicians and artists. I like contact and will play your music on the radio.

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